Limited numbers; Location of the first demo Nobile kites

[Mike B]

Not as many as I would have hoped for, only 10 in total
but here are the locations of the first UK Demo Kites from Mr Shinn.

Whitstable Windsurfing, Kent, CT5 2BP - tp 01227 276566 mark@whitstablewindsurfing.com
Poole Harbour Boardsailing, Poole, Dorset - BH14 8HU tp 01202 700503 info@pooleharbour.co.uk
Solent Sailboards, Calshot, Hampshire - SO45 1BR tp 02380 894000 solentsailboards@aol.com
Power Kite Shop, Oldbury B69 2EL tp 08702 405677 info@powerkiteshop.com

Main Kite delivery will be in 4-5 weeks.

Prices;
555 sle (4 line) kite only
7m £499
9m £549
10m £599
12m £649
14m £699
555 Bar and lines £250 (one bar fits all kite sizes)

666 NHP (5 line) Kite only
7m £519
9m £569
10m £619
12m £669
14m £719
666 Bar and lines £280 (one bar fits all kite sizes)

It has been asked why the bars and lines are so expensive, and it's a good question, for this is how they translate, yet I'd rather have the bars and lines more expensive than the kites, as for one, kites are more expensive anyway, and you need less bars than kites!

for full details of the 555 see http://www.nobilekiteboarding.com and http://www.kiteboarder.co.uk/kitesurfing/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=22053

for full details of the 666 NHP see http://www.nobilekiteboarding.com and http://www.kiteboarder.co.uk/kitesurfing/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=22054

For some background on shinn and his kites see http://www.kiteboarder.co.uk/kitesurfing/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=22050

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[danmon_81]

Why non in the North West or North?????

Dan

[VARTO]

You say one bar fits all? the website says they adjust between 48 and 54cm width, is this quick 5 second operation or is the reality you need two bars one set small for the little kites and one set big, I wouldn't want to be farting about taking up time when its howling and I,m trying to set up my small kite (bar) fast. Kites look good though I am tempted, it'll be between these and 08 vapors I think.

[Mike B]

Why non in the North West or North????? Dan

I have two here, which I will have over to Ainsdale some time soon, but I only had a few, and those who ordered them first got, I tried to get as many as I could! Still wait till there is a good northerly and come try one in a 20 foot north sea roller :). They are at Surfstore at the moment.

You say one bar fits all? the website says they adjust between 48 and 54cm width, is this quick 5 second operation or is the reality you need two bars one set small for the little kites and one set big, I wouldn't want to be farting about taking up time when its howling and I,m trying to set up my small kite (bar) fast. Kites look good though I am tempted, it'll be between these and 08 vapors I think.

My concern too; Inside the foam cover of the outide line you unloop a larks head, pull through and refeed from the other side, reattach the larks head... takes seconds...really.

As to the Vapor vs Shinn... I'm in the same boat. I just love the 10m Vapor; Ben actually made me two custom Vapors closer to my ideal during the final set of prototyping for the Vapor II, and these (for me) are awesome, but I'm still looking forward to these new kites. The 10m 666 I tried was very impressive indeed, and I'm told the majority are preferring the 555's.

[VARTO]

has the 666 got pulleys on the front lines?

[VARTO]

I just watched the video on the 666 webpage, Man someone needs to buy Mr Shinn a bottle of sunblock! :-)

[Mike B]

666 and pullies, My first thought was no; it's direct connection, but that's not entirely true.... the kite does have a single pulley on the front. I'm not a great believer in pullies (personally; as I never use a lot of depower) so I did give mark a hard time about it, and got the full explanation;

The front attachment point is split over a very small distance; it allows the pivot point to move forward more than a traditional 5 line, so in effect you get a great deal more depower. It also allows a spreading of the front line loads to the leading edge which is better for load distribution. That's all well and good but the concern I had was that the sharp feel of 5 line would be lost with a dreaded pully in there, but infact, unlike a 4 line pulley system the front lines are not being fed (or linked) to the back, so the pulley movement (travel) is minimal, and because it is only attached to the front lines there is no dilution of the steering input. He was right, and the depower bar travel is minimal. Check out the length of the chicken loop line on the bar pics.

[Mike B]

One of the most interesting things about this kite is the natural arc concept.. have a read... sounds like a another marketing name for some unquantifiable claim, but in actual terms it makes a lot of sense.. and although it has been mentioned to me by another designer in passing, it's something that is fundemental to the way kites work.

[davo]

[quote="Mike B"]666 and pullies, My first thought was no; it's direct connection, but that's not entirely true.... the kite does have a single pulley on the front. I'm not a great believer in pullies (personally; as I never use a lot of depower) so I did give mark a hard time about it, and got the full explanation;

The front attachment point is split over a very small distance; it allows the pivot point to move forward more than a traditional 5 line, so in effect you get a great deal more depower. It also allows a spreading of the front line loads to the leading edge which is better for load distribution. That's all well and good but the concern I had was that the sharp feel of 5 line would be lost with a dreaded pully in there, but infact, unlike a 4 line pulley system the front lines are not being fed (or linked) to the back, so the pulley movement (travel) is minimal, and because it is only attached to the front lines there is no dilution of the steering input. He was right, and the depower bar travel is minimal. Check out the length of the chicken loop line on the bar pics.[/quote]

So it's a Globerider KPO set up then?

[Mike B]

So it's a Globerider KPO set up then?

no idea bud; never seen one!

the only thing that I know that is close is the north system.

[Mike B]

this arrived in my inbox this morning, from a importer who imports a big brand aside nobile.

"The 555 is simply a sublime kite for everyone, Mark nailed that one. My guess is the average market will see at least 70% of the Nobile sales going to the 555.

The NHP is a very good freestyle kite, but really designed for the upper echelon of kiters whose tricks ar all predominantly unhooked.

A great kite, but if the majority are honest with their personal level, the 555 will suit them best."

[ronnie]

Hi Mike,
A few questions on the Nobile kite/bar.

The chickenloop is supposed to be red, so it is easier to find if you have to use the Q/R and it falls off your hook, but I have seen pictures of them in light grey and black. Black does not seem like a good idea.

The extension on the chickenloop - does the end contact the bar leaving space for your fingers between the Q/R and the bar, or does the whole extension go into the bar?

The videos were made before the bars were available. Is there going to be a video showing the Bars in operation (and hopefully showing the kites performing too). The existing videos were not ideal for that, concentrating on showing the riders.

What is the depower throw on the 555 bar? I am wondering if other bars will work with the kites, so what are the lengths of the bar on it's two settings?

The 555 does not seem a particularly flat kite. I can understand that Mark wanted the best combination of characteristics, so does that mean say the 14m is less aimed at the lightwind market than say the 14m Contra?

When you flag the 555 to a front line, does itonly flag far enough to depower the kite, making it easier to pull to the bar along the flagging line and let the line run back through the bar? What is the result of the flagging line running through the bar? Is there still a problem with twisting/snagging, or does it still operate under all circumstances?

[Mike B]

Hi Mike,
A few questions on the Nobile kite/bar.

The chickenloop is supposed to be red, so it is easier to find if you have to use the Q/R and it falls off your hook, but I have seen pictures of them in light grey and black. Black does not seem like a good idea.

Good point. When we were in poland they had 4 different colours; yelow, grey, black and white... Black got the thumbs down, but everything else was a matter of personal taste. It would be possible to lose them, even when they float, but you'd have to be unhooked and not using a suicide leash, so ther are very few who would be in this situation! having said that the replacement units are only £5.95 at retail, so peanuts really, you could have a spare just incase...

The extension on the chickenloop - does the end contact the bar leaving space for your fingers between the Q/R and the bar, or does the whole extension go into the bar?

As far as I know, and the final moulding was at the time I saw it not finished, the chicken loop goes only partially into the bar so it cant trap your fingers. Shinn has lost more bits of skin over the years than anyone, so if he's very understanding of having a bar system that does not bite.

The videos were made before the bars were available. Is there going to be a video showing the Bars in operation (and hopefully showing the kites performing too). The existing videos were not ideal for that, concentrating on showing the riders.

Mmmm... I know there is more video footage to come, I will ask, but I would say yes, yet the final bar needs to be finished. Sample kites I am told are leaving central Europe for the UK tomorrow.

What is the depower throw on the 555 bar? I am wondering if other bars will work with the kites, so what are the lengths of the bar on it's two settings? I don't know, but I can thell you this... it's the shortest throw in the industry. Yes other 4 line bars will work, but you will only use a fraction of the throw. You may even be able to use a C kite bar, but I will know more when it arrives.

The 555 does not seem a particularly flat kite. I can understand that Mark wanted the best combination of characteristics, so does that mean say the 14m is less aimed at the lightwind market than say the 14m Contra?

This is true... have a read of the natural arc concept... ie if you make the front of a kite flat the trailing edge of the kite will always take on a perfect arc between it's two main points of lad (the back line attachment) This play havoc on the power generation on flat kites, causing inefficiency, instability and non liniar handling as the shape constantly alters draft etc,, by locking the front to the back it causes the kites to manoeuvre aand drive far more effectively. Have a read, it's very logical, and having tried the 10nhp I can say it is one of the most consistant kites I have ever used.

Is the 14 a lightwind kite, well that is only something to answer when it arrives. My personal take is that there are 2 types of lightwind kite, ones that don't move and ones that do. If you want a tractor that doesn't move then buy a flysurfer, they are massive and do this very well; lots of power... but my honest opionion is that there is no point in going out if you can't play about, so the 14 will be fast enough to have fun on. If you want more lightwind ability than this then by a skim or bigger board... Kiteboarding to me does not include massive kites that don't move! I'm 80kg and 16 Vapor is too big for me, the 14 goes earlier... but I could go on forever.... shinn has no plans to do a 16 for now, the sales figures are not high enough. ps you should try a skimboard

When you flag the 555 to a front line, does itonly flag far enough to depower the kite, making it easier to pull to the bar along the flagging line and let the line run back through the bar? What is the result of the flagging line running through the bar? Is there still a problem with twisting/snagging, or does it still operate under all circumstances?

I'm not so familiar with the term flagging.. what I think you are saying is safety releasing the kite onto a front line re-ride? if so then it works thus; (taken from the attached pdf sheet for the bar. I will aslo put up the natural arc explanantion;

"4th Line Safety The leash line on the 4 line bar runs from the FULCRUM Quick Release up through the INOX ring and attaches to one of the front flying lines. In the event of releasing the bar the kite completely de-powers and lies in the
water to one side of the window ready for immediate relaunch."

Sounds like a perfect re ride, and because it runs through the centre of the bar - no twisting issues.

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[Mike B]

Natural arc concept;

"Natural Arc Shaping
The 555 features Natural Arc shaping, the most aerodynamically efficient shape for a Leading Edge Inflatable (LEI) kite.
The fluid form has several key benefits in performance and has been developed through extensive R and D and not
marketing influence. As there are no corners or radical changes of angle in the leadng edge the form is the same as the
trailing edge of the kite ensuring that the designed profile is maintained across the entire canopy. Another gain is that
even tension is applied across the canopy eliminating all fluttering and flapping and greatly enhancing the kite’s
stability. Structurally the lack of pressure points in the leading edge also greatly decreases the load on the bladder
and seams thus reducing the chance of material failure."

Look at a pic of a really flat kite, then compare it's trailing edge profile to it's leading edge profile under load. it will not match.. and will not follow the same canopy profile under different loadings... I have been told that matching it gives far more stability, efficiency and consistancy in handling.

Looking forward to testing the theory... My Vapor is already glowering at me from the corner of the garage... there is a new sibling on the way!

[ronnie]

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the replies.
From another posting, it seems the bar has 2 effective lengths of 48cm and 54cm.

The front leashed line on the 555 has a red ball on it. I am guessing that it is further up the line than in the illustration, to allow the kite to depower enough. Then I presumed that line up to the ball was thick enough to pull yourself back to the bar, connect the fulcrum again and you are set to go.

The Inox swivel looks like it should deal with any twisting of the front lines, so there should be no twists below the swivel.

If I was to use the bar with my 9m Omega, I guess I would have to fit a longer depower rope and have a way to shorten it when using a 555, but that looks easy to do.